The eagle's left head

And the trickle of peasants fleeing to the Despotate will become a flood. This is a recipe for demographic and economic collapse.
Yeah, especially as the barons continue to be barons even as they fight a war the peasants would move to the Lascarid lands so their families live better lives in general.
Something tells me that he has painted a big double-headed eagle target on his back. The Lascarids enjoy naval supremacy and Lesvos is a juicy target. It certainly helps that part of the population are Asia Minor refugees that literally worshipped Theodore's grandfather.
Yeah the Lascarids are coming for his arse aren't they?
Even so the Catalans took significant attrition since they cannot sustain even such casualties in the medium term. And they will have to face an epirote army on top of everything.
I don't think they can really rebuild their cavalry which is the backbone of their military force. As long as the Lascarids blockade them they literally can't get more Catalans to rebuild their forces. I don't think they'd trust their levies too, which just makes it even worse for them.
Skopje, January 6th, 1322
tbf I'm curious how it'd end. Would it end the same way as otl or would Konstantin win ittl? This looks like otl tho, so you going that way makes sense.
Palermo, June 1322
I don't think Frederick could fight much more if he has to deal with a famine at the same time. Closing off the war on this front would be good for Ioannis: focusing on Greece proper would allow them to gain a lot more lands if he could crush Thessaly and Epirus.
Athens, December 1322
Iw wonder why Theodore still hasn't ground out most of Alfonso's army even in the siege. Alfonso still had to fight him outside of the fortresses and the common peasant likes Theodore more anyways.
 
And the trickle of peasants fleeing to the Despotate will become a flood. This is a recipe for demographic and economic collapse.
The events on the Aragonese part of Sicily are entirely historical. You might say the Eastern par5 of the island is luckier of course...
What portions of the old Despotate does Orsini control? Has Ioannina accepted imperial suzerainty with extended privileges as in OTL? Does Philip of Taranto still control the castles of Vonitza, Angelokastro, Vrachori and Lepanto (basically Acarnania and Aetolia) ?
Ioannina were taken by the Byzantines. I am under the very strong impression though that Anna of Epirus kicked the Angevins out when Philip claimed the entire despotate in 1306 and then Philip failed in his invasion of it..
Oh my bad - I thought that the Argolis was captured in the previous clash. The fact that a lot of men deserted Palaiologos after the defeat is telling. I wonder fow how long both the elite and the peasants of Laconia would adhere to imperial commands. Andronikos' commands have lead from one disaster to another. Now they have to face the greatest general of their time, who has a bigger force. Not to mention that the Despotate provides a paradigm of success, prosperity and opportunities to nobles and peasants alike.
It's civil war. If the other side seems to win and will take you in why would you fail to change sides?
Something tells me that he has painted a big double-headed eagle target on his back. The Lascarids enjoy naval supremacy and Lesvos is a juicy target. It certainly helps that part of the population are Asia Minor refugees that literally worshipped Theodore's grandfather.
What excuse do they have beyond "nice island you have there we like it"? Besides Martino was capable and an active anti-Turkish fighter. As an enemy he is going to be trouble and the Lascarids have a full plate of troubles at the moment. As an ally he's likely very useful.
Even so the Catalans took significant attrition since they cannot sustain even such casualties in the medium term. And they will have to face an epirote army on top of everything.
Ancient and Medieval battles tended to produce rather one sided results though as here. And the Victor's could usually count upon their wounded being treated. The defeated... less so.
Yeah, especially as the barons continue to be barons even as they fight a war the peasants would move to the Lascarid lands so their families live better lives in general.
The barons did continue to be barons in OTL which led to unprecedented demographic collapse. So nothing new here. Now if someone took the Lascarid playbook either in Sicily or in Greece proper it could get fun but who that would be?
Yeah the Lascarids are coming for his arse aren't they?
Not necessarily at least in the short term. If he fights Turkish corsairs and respects Lascarid possessions why attack him? Particularly when this may Lan you at war with Genoa?
I don't think they can really rebuild their cavalry which is the backbone of their military force. As long as the Lascarids blockade them they literally can't get more Catalans to rebuild their forces. I don't think they'd trust their levies too, which just makes it even worse for them.

tbf I'm curious how it'd end. Would it end the same way as otl or would Konstantin win ittl? This looks like otl tho, so you going that way makes sense.

I don't think Frederick could fight much more if he has to deal with a famine at the same time. Closing off the war on this front would be good for Ioannis: focusing on Greece proper would allow them to gain a lot more lands if he could crush Thessaly and Epirus.
He fought on to 1337 OTL with famine underway so I would not hold much hope there...
Iw wonder why Theodore still hasn't ground out most of Alfonso's army even in the siege. Alfonso still had to fight him outside of the fortresses and the common peasant likes Theodore more anyways.
When we can start with Alfonso having numerical superiority on him thanks to the need to revert half the army against Mystra.
 
Ioannina were taken by the Byzantines. I am under the very strong impression though that Anna of Epirus kicked the Angevins out when Philip claimed the entire despotate in 1306 and then Philip failed in his invasion of it..

According to "The Latins in the Levant", Butrinto, Vonitza and Lepanto remained in Angevin control well into the 1330s. There is no mention of Angelokastro and Vrachori, so these castles may indeed have been recovered by the Angeli.

What excuse do they have beyond "nice island you have there we like it"? Besides Martino was capable and an active anti-Turkish fighter. As an enemy he is going to be trouble and the Lascarids have a full plate of troubles at the moment. As an ally he's likely very useful.
Not necessarily at least in the short term. If he fights Turkish corsairs and respects Lascarid possessions why attack him? Particularly when this may Lan you at war with Genoa?

This is a very fair argument. My thought is that the Catepanate is at war with the Empire and Martino is typically a vassal of the Emperor. However they could target other imperial-held islands, like Lemnos or Imbros.

I doubt though that the prospect of war with Genoa would bother Theodore. The Genoese are having a bloody civil war with Savona, Pera and the Black Sea colonies being in Ghibelline hands. The ability of the Genoese Guelphs to project power to the East was very limited: in 1323/1324 they managed to send only 10 galleys at the Black Sea. The Ghibellines will soon have to deal with the Aragonese invasion of Sardinia where the Doria and Malaspina clans had extensive holdings. Even though they cannot wage war against James, they still have an entanglement in the West. Overall, I think the Genoese threat is neutralized.
 
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Since the Basileus Andronikos II has declared war to his vassal (the Lascarids), is the vassalage agreement annulled?

I doubt that the Lascarids would drop that legal figleaf. It costs them nothing since they don't pay any tribute to Costantinople and at the same time they have more opportunities to influence the Empire from within.
 
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Technically the Laskarids are simply supporting the rightful Emperor Andronicos III in his fight to claim his rightful throne.

So, as long as Andronicos III wins and Andronicos II loses, the Laskarids have simply done their duty in supporting the true Emperor.
 
The barons did continue to be barons in OTL which led to unprecedented demographic collapse. So nothing new here. Now if someone took the Lascarid playbook either in Sicily or in Greece proper it could get fun but who that would be?
I just wonder would the colonists adapt to Greek as the language of administration and assimilate to become greek instead.
Not necessarily at least in the short term. If he fights Turkish corsairs and respects Lascarid possessions why attack him? Particularly when this may Lan you at war with Genoa?
hmm true. I see the Lascarids watching for weakness tho. Perhaps he could be folded into the Lascarid fold?
He fought on to 1337 OTL with famine underway so I would not hold much hope there...
Ah I see, yeah he should survive longer then. I definitely see the Vatatzes coming for his land as they mop up the Morea, which seems like something they could do, considering Argopolis and co are being taken.
 
According to "The Latins in the Levant", Butrinto, Vonitza and Lepanto remained in Angevin control well into the 1330s. There is no mention of Angelokastro and Vrachori, so these castles may indeed have been recovered by the Angeli.
That's correct, which makes Orsini weaker than he'd be otherwise. It also adds an interesting Angevin complication, particularly since the castles are not controlled by Robert directly.
This is a very fair argument. My thought is that the Catepanate is at war with the Empire and Martino is typically a vassal of the Emperor. However they could target other imperial-held islands, like Lemnos or Imbros.

I doubt though that the prospect of war with Genoa would bother Theodore. The Genoese are having a bloody civil war with Savona, Pera and the Black Sea colonies being in Ghibelline hands. The ability of the Genoese Guelphs to project power to the East was very limited: in 1323/1324 they managed to send only 10 galleys at the Black Sea. The Ghibellines will soon have to deal with the Aragonese invasion of Sardinia where the Doria and Malaspina clans had extensive holdings. Even though they cannot wage war against James, they still have an entanglement in the West. Overall, I think the Genoese threat is neutralized.
The Lascarids still need to tread carefully. They are fighting a three front war at the moment and are at war for the past seven years. Yes the war is by now on other people lands but still...
Since the Basileus Andronikos II has declared war to his vassal (the Lascarids), is the vassalage agreement annulled?
Here someone might ask what vassalage agreement. Yes the despots recognize that ultimately being despot is a title the Basileus grants you so theoretically you are part of the empire. But they have NO concrete feudal obligation towards Constantinople.
Technically the Laskarids are simply supporting the rightful Emperor Andronicos III in his fight to claim his rightful throne.

So, as long as Andronicos III wins and Andronicos II loses, the Laskarids have simply done their duty in supporting the true Emperor.
Yes... as long as you take into account they are even more loosely tied than say... a contemporary French duchy.
I just wonder would the colonists adapt to Greek as the language of administration and assimilate to become greek instead.
The working assumption is that since 1282 the slow retreat of the Greek language in Eastern Sicily and Calabria is equally slowly getting reversed as the state pressure against the Greeks and their church went away and instead they are tacitly supported by the new dynasty for obvious reasons, not just Alexandros being Greek but also the Sicilian barons having every reason to be predisposed against him.
hmm true. I see the Lascarids watching for weakness tho. Perhaps he could be folded into the Lascarid fold?

Ah I see, yeah he should survive longer then. I definitely see the Vatatzes coming for his land as they mop up the Morea, which seems like something they could do, considering Argopolis and co are being taken.
Lesbos with Phocaea attached is rich and populous for the time, it should have close to 30-40,000 people. When run by someone like Martino Zaccaria it should be pretty useful. What I really wonder is what the hell Constantinople was doing when in the 1330s it recovered both islands, since between them they would have revenues in excess of 150,000 ducats. That's enough for keeping something like 30 galleys in the payroll. Or 1500 knights. Then the 1330s did see a marked upsurge in Byzantine fortunes despite the loss of Asia Minor. Hmm.
 
Lesbos with Phocaea attached is rich and populous for the time, it should have close to 30-40,000 people. When run by someone like Martino Zaccaria it should be pretty useful. What I really wonder is what the hell Constantinople was doing when in the 1330s it recovered both islands, since between them they would have revenues in excess of 150,000 ducats. That's enough for keeping something like 30 galleys in the payroll. Or 1500 knights. Then the 1330s did see a marked upsurge in Byzantine fortunes despite the loss of Asia Minor. Hmm.

Well, we are talking about the paleologan decentralization era. The islands might very well be rich, but the ability of the central state to profit from its assets is significantly reduced. In contrast, the lascarid state can properly utilize the manpower and resources of its domains.

Here someone might ask what vassalage agreement. Yes the despots recognize that ultimately being despot is a title the Basileus grants you so theoretically you are part of the empire. But they have NO concrete feudal obligation towards Constantinople.
The friendly relationship that Andronikos III enjoys with the Theodore can be a long term boon to the Empire. In OTL 1325 he had asked his grandfather to help him cross to Bithynia with his army to bring supplies to Prusa. I suppose he meant ships. if that's the case, it would be easy for him to arrange his lascarid allies to provide such service. The cost for Theodore would be really small and a good way to gain some goodwill in Adrianople. While I doubt such expedition would change Prusa's fate, it might postpone the fall of Byzantine Bithynia's remnants.
 
Where does that bit come from?
I checked again the "Constantinople and the Latins" and it seems I didn't remember exactly the quote
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Since it doesn't seem that Andronikos III had ships of his own, my guess was that he was asking for ships.
 
The working assumption is that since 1282 the slow retreat of the Greek language in Eastern Sicily and Calabria is equally slowly getting reversed as the state pressure against the Greeks and their church went away and instead they are tacitly supported by the new dynasty for obvious reasons, not just Alexandros being Greek but also the Sicilian barons having every reason to be predisposed against him.
Yeah, but as you've said a lot of it's due to the Greeks not assimilating and migration from Greece/Anatolia. What about the Latin speakers? If the Vatatzes don't successfully assimilate the Latin speakers it'd be a 50/50 mix at the very least.
Well, we are talking about the paleologan decentralization era. The islands might very well be rich, but the ability of the central state to profit from its assets is significantly reduced. In contrast, the lascarid state can properly utilize the manpower and resources of its domains.
yeah probably the nobles didn't pay their taxes.
The Lascarids still need to tread carefully. They are fighting a three front war at the moment and are at war for the past seven years. Yes the war is by now on other people lands but still...
I think the Lascarid/Vatatzes armies haven't been ground down yet. I do think they do need to take a breather especially in areas like Sicily but there is also a lot of opportunity in regions such as Greece proper. Serbia is weak right now, and the Catalans cannot replenish themselves due to Angevin blockades, and there is a good possibility that they are able to take all of this and defend it against various actors in the region.
 
Part 45
Sardinia, April 1323

Hugh II, Judge of Arborea agreed to become a vassal of the kingdom of Aragon. in June an Aragonese expedition under crown prince Alfonso would land in Sardinia and put the Pisan garrison in Villa di Chiesa under siege. After a delay of a quarter century the Aragonese conquest of Sardinia had finally begun.

Palermo, April 1323

Crown prince Peter had been proclaimed co-king two years before by the Sicilian parliament. Now he was married to Elizabeth of Carinthia. It was unclear what the house of Barcelona hoped to gain by this match. Of course Elizabeth's father was a half-brother of Conradin from the second marriage of his mother, but that connection carried rather little influence by now.

Sicily, June 1323

A new Angevin army marched out of Trapani, to invade Frederick's lands. The scale of the invasion was manageable, after all the Angevins were still heavily committed in fighting in mainland Italy and king Robert was away to France since 1319, with his son Charles running Naples, but it still meant Frederick had to fight a two front war. It was not the best prospect for a country that had already lost a seventh of its population over the last seven years...

Trikala, August 1323

The town accepted an Epirote garrison, under despot John II Orsini. With Gabriilopoulos army smashed up by Fadrique the only other alternative was surrendering to the Catalans. The Catalans were actually getting quite a bit of support from Thessaly's aristocrats who were rather suspicious of the Lascarids. After all what did it matter if Theodore and his brother were fellow Greeks if it meant they would have to their highly centralized state with a tradition of supporting the lower classes? Alfonso, particularly in his current weakened state where he absolutely needed their support was preferable.

Argos, September 1323

Larissa, the citadel of Argos finally surrendered to the soldiers of Alexios Philanthopenos. Nauplion cut off from land and sea had fallen quickly. But the commander of Argos had held out for fifteen months before surrendering. In doing so it had tied down the despotate for most of the campaign season giving Demetrios some breathing space. How much that would help with Constantinople failing to provide any reinforcements was anyone's guess.

Salona, December 1323

The town still held up as Andronikos Asen even with the support of local volunteers had insufficient numbers to cut it of from supply. The county of Salona was a fief directly controlled by Alfonso Fadrique and even with his army defeated in Corinth and Aliartos he had made certain the castle, one of the strongest in Greece, was well provisioned and garrisoned. But Andronikos was a capable man. He would keep grinding down of the Franks till Phokis had been recovered.

Brindisi, January 1324

John Count of Gravina led a fleet of 25 galleys east accross the Adriatic. The dowry of his sister was just the principality of Achaea. Nothing said that the rest of Greece had to pass to house Lascaris, even if it was allied and had given fealty tp Robert instead of more worthy members of the House of Anjou. Like himself.

Avignon, February 1324

Robert I, after four years finally begun the journey back to Naples. But his journey would not begin with good news, as in the end of the month Galeazzo Visconti would defeat the papal army that was threatening Milan.

Philadepheia, June 1324

The city surrendered to the Turks that had been besieging it since the start of the year. No help had been sent to it by any of the three emperors. Neither the Lascarids or Zaccaria or the Hospitallers were in a position to aid a city so deeply inland. The sole thing Theodore and Ioannis had been able to do had been to pay for the safe passage of any of the citizens that did not want to remain under the Turks. Ioannis would settle them in the outskirts of Syracuse.

Arta, July 1324

John of Gravina had first landed in Corfu, securely held be the Angevins for the past half century. From there he had moved against Arta, in hopes of restoring the Angevin claim on Epirus. But once more the despotate's capital was proving too tough a nut to crack even under the leaderships of someone as questionable as John Orsini. The siege went on but John was starting to get frustrated. After all he had to keep his mercenaries paid and fed and the money he had received from Nicholas Acciajuoli were not inexhaustible.

Didymoteichon, October 1324

Andronikos III was of two minds of the news he was receiving from the south. His grandfather despite the peace between them had refused his calls to come to terms with Theodore. Instead he had sent Manuel to take command of Laconia. Theodore was tacitly avoiding to attack his holdings, Lemnos which had proclaimed for himself back in 1322 would had been an easy target, for the Lascarid navy otherwise. But the Morea was a different matter. There Alexios Philanthopenos was systematically demolishing Manuel fort by fort, he suspected the only thing saving his brother was the better part of Theodore's army being tied down against the Catalans, without either side making any headway. Which on one had meant that Theodore was removing his rival for himself. But on the other meant the empire was going to lose her Moreor possessions. One more great success for his grandfather...
 
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Sicily, June 1323
Considering the fact that Naples and co are already coming in for the coup de grace, and the collapse of Frederick's state I'll not be surprised if no one other than Frederick III rules the Kingdom of Sicily. His descendants may run to Aragon and maybe they'd have some land there but the kingdom is under the death spiral.
Trikala, August 1323
So the remnants of the Despotate of Thessaly go to John? That makes sense, I wonder how it'd go though. Would we see the Lascarids go for it eventually?
Brindisi, January 1324
Arta, July 1324
Since Orsini is under siege from John of Gravina I wonder would the Lascarids eventually join in the fun after they finish dealing with Alfonso. Since the domains of the Vatatzes/Lascarids are doing quite well (with the Vatatzes Sicilian holdings not needing to pay war taxes and the Moreotes being relatively unscathed) I could see them continue on when Alfonso is dealt with. Maybe we'll see a cannon or two being brought in to fight Alfonso?
 
Didymotichon, October 1324
I think Andronikos III would have to take it. The Lascarids/Vatatzes has been great allies to him, and they've done nothing to raise his ire for now. Long term this may not be good for the Palailogoses but he really needs the Lascairds rn. He did hide in their territory before...
 
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Philadepheia, June 1324

The city surrendered to the Turks that had been besieging it since the start of the year. No help had been sent to it by any of the three emperors. Neither the Lascarids or Zaccaria or the Hospitallers were in a position to aid a city so deeply inland. The sole thing Theodore and Ioannis had been able to do had been to pay for the safe passage of any of the citizens that did not want to remain under the Turks. Ioannis would settle them in the outskirts of Syracuse.
Philadelpheia falling in 1324 to the Turks is a major departure from OTL, when it was captured by the Ottomans in 1390 (with the help of the vassalized Byzantine/Roman Empire :( ).
 
Philadelpheia falling in 1324 to the Turks is a major departure from OTL, when it was captured by the Ottomans in 1390 (with the help of the vassalized Byzantine/Roman Empire :( ).
That was the unfortunate butterfly of Philanthropenos having an illustrious career in the West.

Brindisi, January 1324

John Count of Gravina led a fleet of 25 galleys east accross the Adriatic. The dowry of his sister was just the principality of Achaea. Nothing said that the rest of Greece had to pass to house Lascaris, even if it was allied and had given fealty tp Robert instead of more worthy members of the House of Anjou. Like himself.
John of Gravina starts his expedition with 5 galleys more than in OTL. In spring 1326 he had to return to Italy since he ran out of coin. He is having to pay more mercenaries now, while he won't receive any income from Achaea and the County Palatinate. The Acciaioli can loan only so much money after all. Or John can pawn holdings and claims to his bankers.

In OTL he received the allegiance of Martino Zaccaria. I wonder if it will be the same in TTL, since the Angevins can protect Lesvos more efficiently than Andronikos.
 
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So I did a thing...

I decided to mainly post the major players surrounding our favorite Despotate based on what Lascaris has said up to the most recent post. Not sure how Aragon, Serbia, Venice (Italy holdings), and Milan are, but if anyone has any suggestions on border changes, please let me know!

Regarding Byzantine Anatolia, I decided to use zone of influence (Zoi) as I couldn't find a good resource for it. I do know that Nicaea/ Nicomedia weren't lost til the 1330's? And since this map is for the 1320's, I kept the closest parts of the Bythinian Theme, and put the rest of Byzantine Anatolia under a Zoi. Also wasn't sure on the status of the siege of Durazzo, unsure if that should go to Naples, Byz, or Albania so for the ease of map making I just filled it with purple.

Otherwise I used Zoi wherever I wasn't really sure on the border (really every nation-state should have Zoi, as hard borders weren't custom til like 18th Century?).

Thanks @Lascaris for the TL!

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