Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo/Rumsfeldia Con't

[SirCecil]

they would probably see Xi Jinping as a less-batshit version of Lesser Mao.

It occurred to me you never answered my question but I think this statement answers it to a degree. I don’t find Xi Jinping as anything like the Lesser Mao, or even Mao Zedong, at the time of this writing. This is in no way to defend him as a person or to excuse his multiple and repeated crimes against humanity but I think it’s helpful to have perspective. For example, Xi Jinping did not nuke a revolting city.

Someone who lived through TTL Rumsfeld's anarcho-capitalism and the CV's genocidal madness would be disturbed to see Evangelicals rallying around Donald Trump, Jerry Falwell getting away with blaming 9/11 on gay people, a Supreme Court ruling that campaign finance laws are a violation of free speech, and millions of middle-aged men watching Fox News almost religiously.

I am not trying to wade into current politics with this but this part of your post highlights what I think most people are hesitant to vocalize; that it slowly but surely becomes clear that Drew was drawing upon then contemporary right wing populism when writing the timeline. I really think that when Drew was writing Rumsfeldia it was at least in part meant to be a jab at conservatives, and that he believed that something like it could exist in reality. This, more than anything, colors perspectives on Rumsfeldia, because even while Drew writes about transparency ludicrous and unlikely events (like China becoming the Khmer Rouge on crack or an ISIS equivalent forty years early) what people keep arguing about is the US turning into an ancap dictatorship.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

He doesn’t come across to me as any more sinister then any other influential Evangelical at the time. While I certainly can’t say one way or the other whether he’d accept an authoritarian Christian state I do think that he and millions of other Christians would balk at what exists in Rumsfeldia.



That’s not the issue here, the issue is that Coe as Drew portrayed him is a Christian Mullah Omar with nukes. This is so far removed from the real person’s personality that it veers into absurdity. To put it another way, do you really believe Drew was being fair when he wrote some of these people the way that they are? From that Wiki page do you get the vibe that this is the man who would bomb Congress if he could? Do you get that feeling about anybody that Drew wrote as a one dimensional monster?

The answer to that question is this: OTL, hardly anybody has ever heard of Douglas Coe or other figures, but people under different circumstances can change, and not always for the better.

TTL America it far more open to a man of Coe and his worldview, giving him more power and corruptive effects of it.

Note: See, I answered your question. I didn't respond because it was along the lines of "HAHAHA, it can't happen here."

It occurred to me you never answered my question but I think this statement answers it to a degree. I don’t find Xi Jinping as anything like the Lesser Mao, or even Mao Zedong, at the time of this writing. This is in no way to defend him as a person or to excuse his multiple and repeated crimes against humanity but I think it’s helpful to have perspective. For example, Xi Jinping did not nuke a revolting city.

Well, of course, Xi Jinping isn't a Lesser Mao: because Xi Dada doesn't feel backed into a corner. But I think his insecurity over the Winnie the Pooh is a bigger red flag than the one hanging over Beijing. But what would he do if he did feel his power and dreams of a Chinese Century came under siege?

 

[SirCecil]

The answer to that question is this: OTL, hardly anybody has ever heard of Douglas Coe or other figures, but people under different circumstances can change, and not always for the better.

TTL America it far more open to a man of Coe and his worldview, giving him more power and corruptive effects of it.

I don’t dispute that, I’m asking you do you think the way Drew characterized him was fair, even given the circumstances of the timeline, and by extension do you feel that way about Rumsfeld or the Lesser Mao?

Note: See, I answered your question.

Thank you.

I didn't respond because it was along the lines of "HAHAHA, it can't happen here."

Of course I don’t think what happened in Rumsfeldia can happen in real life. Now do I think America could become authoritarian, or even suffer a second civil war? Absolutely. But as I’ve made it clear I think “ancap dictatorship followed by a Christian Taliban that uses nuclear weapons in a Second ACW” is nuts. While you may be inclined to dismiss my point entirely perhaps you should consider it.

Well, of course, Xi Jinping isn't a Lesser Mao: because Xi Dada doesn't feel backed into a corner. But I think his insecurity over the Winnie the Pooh is a bigger red flag than the one hanging over Beijing. But what would he do if he did feel his power and dreams of a Chinese Century came under siege?

We’re getting too close to current politics so I’m going to stop it here but I’ll say whatever Xi does in reality is very unlikely to resemble what the Lesser Mao did in Rumsfeldia.

 

[the Imperium of Canada]

Some great posts here on why the concept of Maoist China reaching anything resembling the Khmer Rouge is completely absurd

What if Maoist China went full on Pol Pot?

The regimes of both Mao and Pol Pot are both famous for both their brutality and the sheer number of people killed by these regimes. In Pol Pot's Cambodia, almost a third of the entire population was killed in Pol Pot's "Year Zero" campaign, and in Maoist China, tens of millions of people were...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[Beatriz]

I honestly find a post-Saudi caliphate using its oil money[1] to spread Wahhabism vs. secular if not anti religious Ba’athist regimes a more plausible outcome and something that fits in the Arab Cold War

[1] We would still do some business with them if they are just as willing as the Saudis to trade oil with infidels for money

 

[Sir William Jol]

I recently found an interesting photo of an older Spiro Agnew and Watergate conspirator G. Gordon Liddy in 1994 attending the funeral of former President Richard Nixon. I've been looking for any pictures of Agnew in the '80s and '90s due to his role as NYC Mayor and NY Gov in the '80s, and as VP and President in the '90s according to the non-canon Rumsfeldia continuation. Perhaps a cropped version of this picture featuring only Agnew would be used ITTL as the main Wikipedia picture of Agnew when he's Governor or President.

 

[Tsar Nicholas The Cringe]

I recently found an interesting photo of an older Spiro Agnew and Watergate conspirator G. Gordon Liddy in 1994 attending the funeral of former President Richard Nixon. I've been looking for any pictures of Agnew in the '80s and '90s due to his role as NYC Mayor and NY Gov in the '80s, and as VP and President in the '90s according to the non-canon Rumsfeldia continuation. Perhaps a cropped version of this picture featuring only Agnew would be used ITTL as the main Wikipedia picture of Agnew when he's Governor or President.

Spiro seems to be a living example of the banality of evil. He seems like a typical suburbanite: upwardly mobile, assimilating toward a WASP-ish identity and away from his immigrant roots, and is a devoted golfer and tennis player. You would never expect much from this kind of man, both good and bad.

That is, until he gains power, he quickly goes haywire with it. Suddenly, that obscure fellow you never bothered to notice suddenly proves himself to be a dangerous person because he can't handle a position that effectively gives him control over the massive federal network and a remote control full of big bombs that can destroy the world.

While you might disagree with Rumsfeld and its plausibility, what certainly is plausible is that even in a democratic society, there are individuals who, if put into the wrong place at the wrong time, are capable of great evil.