Could the US have a strong Communist Party as the opposition?

[Viking25]

Fascism as a distinct ideology is a set of beliefs, funded and spread by the haute bourgeoisie. Think how Krupp, IG Farben, BMW, Ford, AEG, AP [Associated Press], Audi, Dresdner, and Hugo Boss among many other companies collaborated with the Nazis and supported their efforts against victims of genocide and the Nazi political system; Krupp produced Zyklon B and directly spread and benefit from slave labor, IG Farben produced Zyklon B and produced rubber using Auschwitz prisoners (killing roughly 23,000 of their 35,000 slaves), BMW benefitted from slave labor and used slaves in vehicle production, AEG used slaves, AP censored anti-Nazi sentiment and promoted pro-German articles in the States, Audi exploited slave labor (particularly at Leitmeritz; over 4,500 people were killed as a direct result of Audi using slave labor from that camp), Dresdner was the main stakeholder in Auschwitz and was the main financier and banking group for the SS in occupied Poland, and Hugo Boss was a fervent Nazi who made Nazi uniforms, and many other examples. I'd go all day listing them here.

Once again you’re over simplifying here(Also the CEO of Krupp would only be upper middle class in Weimar Germany?). Yeah the Corporations eventually warmed to Mustache Man’s fan club seizing absolute control but their preference seems to have been for somebody like Von Papen according to Kernshaw and their overall role in NotChaplins rise to power seems to been one more of “Eh well democracy was pretty cringe anyway” than direct support, even if they like the Prussian Officer corps had basically no moral qualms with anything they did once in power.

Note I also included the haute bourgeoisie in that statement. The Nazi party found its firm rooting in former soldiers, the former aristocracy, more well-off workers, bankers, and industrial conglomerates. Fascism arises as a reaction from the bourgeoisie, who are terrified of class consciousness and proletarian revolution, and the petite-bourgeoisie, who are terrified of becoming poor (or are already poor but either are not or cannot become radicalized; largely in part due to reaction from socialist uprisings---in Nazi Germany this manifested itself as fear from the Spartacist revolution, the Russian revolution, the Hungarian revolution, and the Red Biennium in Italy) and losing their jobs but not radicalized: it helps if they're unfamiliar with or at least not particularly well-versed in Marxism and/or politics as a whole. Fascism feeds on the fear of the petite bourgeoisie, whereas it comes from the fear of the haute bourgeoisie; the petite-bourgeoisie and lumpenproletariat in pre-Nazi but post-Depression Germany were scared of losing their jobs, rocked by hyperinflation and economic mismanagement dating back to the Versailles treaty, hated the West due to the Americans pulling out economic aid and the French occupation of the Ruhr (as well as what would eventually become the Allies being most of the Entente; the United States, France, the United Kingdom, and eventually the Soviet Union as a successor of the Russian Empire), were anti-communist or at least feared Soviet expansion to the West, were filled with former soldiers and Freikorps members, and had convenient scapegoats; ethnic minorities (particularly Jews), political minorities (particularly communists), and foreign adversaries (particularly France and the USSR).

Thank you I am perfectly well aware of the causes of the rise of Fascism. All I am arguing is that your underwriting genuine working class support for the Nazis(Something like 25% of Nazi Voters I believe were Industrial workers while middle class only made up 40%), which was just as widespread as in every other sector of German Society, the Army, Academia etc. And while the whole Strasserism thing is kind of over blown, the Nazi’s weren’t totally afraid of using vaguely left wing rhetoric when it suited them, Goebel’s castigating the DNVP as a bunch of reactionaries comes to mind, and Paul Von Hindenburg was apparently under the impression Hitler was a “dangerous socialist” according to Kernshaw.

 

[Fries]

Once again you’re over simplifying here(Also the CEO of Krupp would only be upper middle class in Weimar Germany?). Yeah the Corporations eventually warmed to Mustache Man’s fan club seizing absolute control but their preference seems to have been for somebody like Von Papen according to Kernshaw and their overall role in NotChaplins rise to power seems to been one more of “Eh well democracy was pretty cringe anyway” than direct support, even if they like the Prussian Officer corps had basically no moral qualms with anything they did once in power.

You're willfully ignoring the fact that I also included the haute bourgeoisie; the high bourgeoisie; the industrial land-owners and labor-buyers, the predominant ruling class of society. The owners of the companies that benefitted from the Holocaust.

Thank you I am perfectly well aware of the causes of the rise of Fascism. All I am arguing is that your underwriting genuine working class support for the Nazis(Something like 25% of Nazi Voters I believe were Industrial workers while middle class only made up 40%),

This is still a plurality that needs a source. I also noted the lumpenproletariat---the proletariat without class-consciousness---and it should be noted that the self-employed also generally includes the petite-bourgeoisie. It seems to me that you're underwriting the fact that I said that the NSDAP predominantly found its backers, sychophants, voters, and devoted followers throughout Germany but found particular favor in the bourgeoisie, since that's where fascism originates. I'd appreciate it if you at least tried to engage me in good faith instead of ignoring the majority of my post.

Paul Von Hindenburg was apparently under the impression Hitler was a “dangerous socialist” according to Kernshaw.

This is because Paul von Hindenburg was an idiot who wouldn't know what socialism was if it hit him in the face. Any argument that Hitler or the NSDAP were socialist in any sort of way, like von Hindenburg said, should be dismissed out of hand.

 

[Viking25]

This is because Paul von Hindenburg was an idiot who wouldn't know what socialism was if it hit him in the face. Any argument that Hitler or the NSDAP were socialist in any sort of way, like von Hindenburg said, should be dismissed out of hand.

Sigh, No I am not saying the Nazis were socialists, but as with most things in politics it’s perception that matters. Certainly its hard to blame old Paul here, considering at first glance I’d expect a party that called itself you know the National Socialists would be at least moderately left economically of centre?

You're willfully ignoring the fact that I also included the haute bourgeoisie; the high bourgeoisie; the industrial land-owners and labor-buyers, the predominant ruling class of society. The owners of the companies that benefitted from the Holocaust.

Which changes things how? I just pointed out that if given the choice they would have probably preferred a military dictatorship under Von Scheliher or Von Papen, and their support wasn’t all that critical to the early Nazi movement.

This is still a plurality that needs a source. I also noted the lumpenproletariat---the proletariat without class-consciousness---and it should be noted that the self-employed also generally includes the petite-bourgeoisie.

I’ve provided it already, Ian Kernshaws biography of Hitler. Can’t recall which page at present but it’s free to read on the internet archive. Here’s a link https://archive.org/details/adolfhitlerthedefinitivebiography

It seems to me that you're underwriting the fact that I said that the NSDAP predominantly found its backers, sychophants, voters, and devoted followers throughout Germany but found particular favor in the bourgeoisie, since that's where fascism originates. I'd appreciate it if you at least tried to engage me in good faith instead of ignoring the majority of my post.

.....Which I’ve also stated. I am just pointing out that the Nazis were a more working class based movement than is often appreciated. Sure you could say these workers hadn’t achieved class consciousness or whatever but it still doesn’t change the fact that Hitler was far better able to rally the urban proteliat to his cause then lets say Alfred Hugenberg or his lot.